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Oct 2, 2026
[Volume 1 Issue 3] BEN JAMES & MAGGIE MALEK: The Business of Creativity at Crispin
[Volume 1 Issue 3] BEN JAMES & MAGGIE MALEK: The Business of Creativity at Crispin
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Transcript
0:00
Are you in Houston then right now? Yes, I'm in Houston. Okay. Yeah. And this painting is actually, uh, by my tattoo artist, so- Oh, no kidding. Yeah.
0:08
Oh, cool So his name's Johnny Beavers, um, and he's become, like, a dear friend since all the tattoos. So- Right... when we were doing art there's actually some... It's like three giant pieces.
0:20
One of them's over here and then this one. Oh, cool. Is it, is he, uh, local? Is it Houston artist? Yeah, he's local. Mm-hmm. Very cool. When did you, when did you get the work done?
0:29
Was it, like, all one session, or have you been adding? I've been adding. Yeah. So it's... But I didn't start getting tattoos till I was, like, 39, so. Okay. Very cool. So that's been, like, 70 hours of tattoos. Dang.
0:42
Yeah. Yeah. Nice. You just went into it. [laughs] I... Yeah. That's, it's like my whole personality.
0:47
[upbeat music] What if throughout this I just slowly, gradually,
1:12
in a way you don't even notice, just start to sink her in? I love that. I think that would be great. It's just the top of your hair by the end of it. I don't think you're going slow enough, though.
1:23
Like, for this to do- Right... the whole hour- [laughs]... it would have to be, like, way slower than that. Okay. Is, uh... Are we good? Do we wanna just jump in? Yeah. Great. Yes. Amazing.
1:34
Um, okay, so before, and Ben and I, we've obviously talked a few times, but Maggie, just for context, like, there's no, there's no hard start to this. We're, like, obviously in it already. Um, but where I wanted to...
1:44
I wanna get into all the areas, 'cause we're gonna be talking about the creative partnership specifically. But for context and to kinda start stuff off, I wonder if we can kinda do a snapshot of you individually first.
1:56
So what I'd love for each of you to kinda talk about for a second is your individual role and just general responsibilities, uh, within the, within Crispin at the moment. I can kick off a little bit, Maggie, if you want.
2:07
Like, um- Okay... so I'm, I'm Ben. I'm chief creative officer here at Crispin. Uh, I'm about 30 days into this new job, but I'm four years into a partnership behind the scenes with my partner in this, Maggie Malik.
2:24
Um, and I am obsessed with the business of creativity.
2:30
Um, really known as a creative leader with a lot of inventiveness in my soul, and, uh, use a lot of that energy to try to think about how we create the business model that we really need for the future so that we can help businesses that we work with, you know, with their commercial goals.
2:49
And just with the media world changing so much, with the talent market changing so much, with client expectations changing so much, um, came to Crispin in 2026, um, with the remit to run creative vision, but to partner with Maggie on really how this operates as a creative business, um, in, in this day and age- Mm...
3:16
using principles of the brand that were really started, uh, decades ago. So- Yep... really excited, uh, to get to work with Maggie. And, um, Maggie, I'll let you share a little bit about yourself here. Awesome.
3:30
So hi, I'm Maggie. So similar to Ben, I grew up in this industry. Um, I now get to lead the dream team over here at Crispin as CEO.
3:40
Um, but I actually started in this industry as a copywriter after a kind of weird background that went between the military and then sports, but now here we are. Um- Yeah...
3:51
I had the luck and the honor of, like, having a lot of really great leaders who taught me about the business of creativity.
3:58
And so as I got, you know, new opportunities, I kinda just always said yes to them, no matter what the title was. Um, and I think one of the scariest jobs I've ever said yes to was taking on the CEO role at Crispin.
4:13
This is a place I learned about in college. Um, it was- Huh... in textbooks about, like, this is what great creativity looks, looks like. But kind of like paths before, I was like, "Yes, let's do this."
4:27
Um, Ben and I met pretty close around that time. He's spent a ton of time with our leadership team. He used to be at Crispin.
4:35
Um, and when I started on the Crispin journey, one of the things we wanted to really do was, like, rediscover what was magical about this place.
4:44
And what is and has always been magical about this place is Crispin sees around corners. Crispin is inventive.
4:52
Um, and I feel like the minute I met Ben, I kind of found this, like, kindred spirit of like, "I would like to r- break rules 'cause I don't know what the rules are."
5:02
And he's like, "Well, I know some of the rules, but also we could do it like this." Hmm. And so it's just been really fun because there's no, like, ego. It really is...
5:11
I tell Ben this all the time, like, I feel like my job is to find and teach the next CEO of this place. Hmm. Same with Ben. And so, like, there's no ego except about the work.
5:21
Because if we can do awesome work, that's how we take care of our teams. Yeah. So okay, so let's frame it a little bit then. So can we... You already mentioned some of these pieces, but can we talk about timeline?
5:30
So when did, like, when did this partnership actually start? I know you've known each other for a while, but when did it kind of in this current state, like, when did this start, or the process even? I mean,
5:39
so I would say for the whole four years that Ben mentioned. So when Ben and I met, I needed, I would say, a friend, a mentor, a partner who deeply understood this industry. I think-- Not I think.
5:55
I know we've all seen this. In this industry, there's a lot of, like, tropes and rules about what is creativity, what is not creativity, what is media, what is not media, who's the producer versus the PM. Hmm.
6:07
And at the beginning of my journey here, I found myself Trying to figure out all of these different rules. So Ben and I met within Stagwell. Nice. Ben has a passion for media.
6:19
I, um, came from an agency that did a lot of creative media, and Ben has a passion for creativity, and he never saw me as less than a creative. I'm just a creative who also happens to like Excel spreadsheets. Yeah.
6:34
So from that, I mean, I would go to Ben for advice on, "Is this-- am I crazy, or is this how this should be done or not?"
6:43
I would go to Ben on days when somebody had explained the difference between PM and production, and it didn't make sense to me. So I would go to Ben on days when I needed inspiration, um, and I think vice versa.
6:56
So while we also did a ton together within Stagwell. Hmm. So we did the Emerging Connections within Stagwell that Ben will talk about more.
7:05
Um, so when we talk about it being a four-year partnership, it's been four years of, I feel like trying to figure out how to work together. And then- Yeah...
7:15
we had the opportunity here, and funny, I like called Ben, and I was like: Hey, I need some advice. Like, I'm looking for my perfect CCO. And Ben was like: Hi, finally. Can I just come do the thing?
7:25
And I was like: Wait, are you ready? Like, are we actually gonna do the thing? So- Yeah... it, it has been so, so expansive. [chuckles] Yeah. This is perfect. Okay. Ben, did you have anything else from your side on that?
7:39
Because I, I, I think it's curious, like her-- I mean, you're-- what you're talking about as far as the previous relationship already being there, like we all know how some of these processes work, and it comes from working for people.
7:50
It comes from knowing the relationship and then graduating into or, and evolving into something new.
7:55
Did you-- I know you worked together already, but was it already in the mind that like we're going to be doing bigger things down the road eventually together? Uh, you know,
8:07
it was always in our minds that we would do things down the road together. Yeah. Um, it was from conversation one a conversation that we had.
8:17
Um, a, a lot of the power of what we really do does come out of the media space specifically. Um, at Crispin, we have creative media. We have a lot of performance media.
8:28
We believe that a clever approach adds potency to the performance conversation. Um, but it's interesting when we, when we really backed out of it to try to look at Crispin as the brand itself and what- Yeah...
8:43
is the philosophy that works in this day and age, and how should that work with the business that we have?
8:50
And a big part of why the media conversation would come into it so much was, you know, we benefit from being able to buy along with and participate in what goes on at Stagwell.
9:02
And then across that group, we can have conversations that a lot of others just cannot. Hmm. Um, and the way we approach those conversations is just different. And so really the whole time it was like,
9:19
okay, there's interesting things going on in social. There's interesting things going on in content.
9:27
There's really interesting things going on in the, in, you know, the performance space, how you use data in really creative ways. So just as a function, it was always a conversation about how to do it.
9:40
And it's funny to think about an industry with so many rules. You know, I, I think of that often as how much as a very creative industry, sometimes it can feel not very creative because of how many rules there are. And-
9:58
Hmm... having been at the Crispin brand so very long ago, um, it w- the, the remit was to rewrite the rules. Hmm. Like it, it really was. And in this day and age, you know, today and moving forward, clients want that.
10:16
They desire that. If you read between the lines in these RFPs, it's, you know, how do you help us, you know- Hmm... make commercial impact in these environments? So, um,
10:27
and Maggie just had a kindred spirit in like, "Hey, this is a commercial art. It's not a high art."
10:34
Sometimes we make high art in service of commercial art, but we're here to do some really interesting things, and that's what the brand has always been about.
10:43
And so we just found ways to have that conversation for many years, and we're excited to do that moving forward in a more official public capacity. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So this is, this is perfect.
10:55
Uh, this, this brings us to now then. So I'm-- So kind of getting into your transition. I mean, again, we, we've been talking, but you're just past your 30-day mark in the role, Ben.
11:02
So like this is still, you know, first-month transition kind of state still. So kind of a starting point, I'm curious when we start getting into the actual partnership conversation, what has been, uh...
11:13
And for both of you, I'm curious what your early priorities have been collectively for this partnership as you're kind of transitioning into this role and transitioning into this actual kind of working relationship.
11:24
I mean, I can speak to mine. I feel-- and I feel like we're doing a really good job of this. I mean, Vince, confidentially, in the last 48 hours, we have had, uh, 2.5 client wins that are- Yeah... very different.
11:40
The 0.5 is, in industry terms, we're in the best and final offer stage. Yeah. Um, but there's so much, I would say, momentum that we're feeling.
11:50
And the priority for me with Ben and Laura, who's sitting here, and some others is like: Don't-- Let's not get in the weeds and nuts and bolts of all the things. Come in, ask questions, be inventive.
12:03
There are things that we know we're nailing from what we've done in the past. There are things we know that we could do better. Don't worry about any of our own rules either, because there are none. Like, ask questions.
12:16
And I feel like from that, he has been able to see pieces of our work from the amazing, uh, things we're doing in packaging for Procter & Gamble, for Kin's, for Kogi, uh, packaging studies, to, again, this like really special creator-first work, um, to really the creative media work where, uh, brands like O'Keefe's are, are buying our creative high artwork because we understand media, that in the past, I feel like other people may d- maybe were so busy trying to like discover all the problems, that they weren't focused on discovering all the magic.
12:54
And I feel like sometimes what you do is just you, you need to look at the magic, and then look at, okay, how do we do that again and again and again and again in its each special ways?
13:04
So that's what I've been excited about this, this first 30 days, is it hasn't felt like Ben has come in to be like, "Hello, I'm the CCO." Yeah. "And now I will talk to you only about craft and kerning.
13:19
And do you know what a widow is? Because I don't know what a widow is." It's been very like, "I'm gonna ask questions and I'm gonna get pumped about this."
13:27
And like, "Maggie, you want a side quest on tattoos for 45 minutes? I'll do that with you." Yeah. "And then we wanna talk about the business." So it's just been like fun. It has been refreshingly fun. We do a fun job.
13:40
Let's have fun doing it. And was that the goal going into it? Was that like the approach, or is that just how it has evolved so far? I, I feel like I said to him on day one, "Do not worry about getting in the weeds." Ah.
13:51
"Focus on the fun stuff, ask questions, assume no rule is a real rule, and like, let's just go." So I, I... And I feel like that the whole leadership team really agreed to that too. Hmm.
14:02
Like, we were like, "When Ben comes in, he's gonna ask questions. We're gonna have... We're not gonna get defensive. We are all gonna be curious together." So it-- I feel like it's been intentional. That's...
14:14
Yeah, that's fantastic. What's-- How about your side, Ben? H- Has it felt the same? Very much so. I mean, one of the most poignant stories is I was meeting one-on-one with our VP of data and technology. Her name's Bea.
14:26
She sits in Houston. But we were-- I went down to Houston, talked, met with her for a while. Hmm. And we were talking about theoretical physics and our relationship to time for- Hmm...
14:38
a long time, and that was just-- Got into this really interesting conversation about our use of time. And then I've just been sending photographs of anything that's exciting in the agency.
14:49
And so I'm sending like 100 photographs [chuckles] a day- [chuckles]... to like different people in, you know, our own internal chat channels and things. Okay. So she had a one-on-one with me, and
15:01
it, this-- it's that thing where, you know, she goes, uh, "Can I, uh, just have some space to be honest with you about something for a minute?" And I was, I was like, "Oh, man. We're-- Like, what do I do?" You know?
15:16
Yeah. And, and I'm like, "Yes." And she, she said, "You see stories in everything." She was like, you know... She goes, "It's not like some people see patterns of things, like objects inside of-" Hmm...
15:30
you know, like a face in toast and things like that. She goes, "But you have this thing where what you're looking at is storytelling."
15:40
And I said, "Well, uh, that's a really beautiful thing to say, and I really appreciate it because I've kinda set my life up to be that way." And I was heavily influenced into doing that by working at Crispin. Hmm.
15:56
So that's like where it all really kinda came together. And so we're hosting sessions that are really bringing people together in the middle of the rooms that we're in. We're- Hmm...
16:07
you know-- And, and all these things are designed as listening sessions to like listen to all the people about what they wanna do, the work that they see, the opportunities, because the remit is, you know, be inventive and do breakthrough things for brands.
16:21
Um, you know, work in really new and emerging ways, and then just bring culture into the building so we get it out of the building and into client businesses as, uh, much as we can. Amazing.
16:35
All right, let's get into the actual work then, uh, specifically.
16:38
So I, I actually wanna, just because of the way that you've already started talking about how you both are working together in this, I'm start-- I'm curious about like division of labor and kinda just your day-to-day and how you actually work together.
16:49
So, um, you both obviously have like individual responsibilities and, and unique roles. Uh, but there's obviously, with this type of work specifically, there's overlap between these two roles.
16:59
So I'm curious, like right now, where are some of the areas within the work itself that you're collectively focused on where those things are overlapping? I think a big part of
17:10
the opportunity in me coming was I spent time listening to... Had 30 one-on-ones with people. Yeah. And, um, one of the things that I did in those sessions is
17:23
I asked people, I said, "Hey, at the end of this, can you please recap this? Because it is an opportunity to make sure that, like, what you want heard gets said and would like to see what you hear me saying about it."
17:41
And was also transparent with them of, "I'm gonna send this information to Maggie." Hmm. Um, and, uh,
17:49
the willingness and transparency and openness of that has been incredible, and we're able to use that as like one kinda qualitative data point against a lot of other things that we've got going on. And then, you know,
18:05
just being friends with Maggie is-- makes it, uh, the ability to share things really quickly. And, you know, we have a lot of-...
18:13
talk right now about the way that we even balance our lives and the lives of the people here- Mm... into the craft of what we do and, and why that's important and why that matters.
18:22
And so, um, it's a, it's a conversation that we're openly exploring right now. So the- Well, and can I... Oh. No, go for it.
18:30
I mean, I, yeah, I, I, I wanna build on that 'cause the thing that I also think is really special about this, and, and I am... I think the team knows this, most of the team, and if they don't know it, I don't know how.
18:43
But I, I love this agency. I have been here at MMI before it joined Crispin for 18 years, and the way I think of it is, you know, like Ben just said, like, we run a small economy. It is humans. It is their families.
19:01
It is the barista across the place at the AC Hotel where my HR person and my COO and my CFO went and got coffee from this morning. Yeah.
19:11
Like, our lives touch many other lives, both from the work we put into the world, but also just, like, our existence, you know? And the thing that I feel
19:23
so passionately about with Ben, I mean, we joke, like I've said, we're like Lilo and Stitch, or even like Porter and Bogusky, is like, I don't want there necessarily to be like a Maggie's the business partner, and Ben's the CCO, and Ben is only allowed to talk about creativity, and Maggie is only allowed to talk about spreadsheets.
19:42
Because when Ben talks about the business of creativity and agency economics, the whole team listens.
19:50
You know, I also think one of the things that's really different, as I've joked about this in the past, I'm like, when you're a leader, everyone's your duckling. [laughs] Like, you, you have to...
19:58
The, the EA is just as important as the finance person is just as important as the CCO. And yes, we have to protect different people's work, but there's no, like, I'm better than you vibe.
20:12
So, like, Ben's 31 interviews were not only with the creative department, they were with the whole agency. Yeah.
20:18
Because if the whole agency, we think of ourselves as creative business advisors, there needs to be more expansive conversation. So I would say there's just this, like, ready trust there.
20:29
Like, Ben didn't ask me how to approach that. All of a sudden, one day I got an invite to the 27th one-on-one. Ben didn't ask me if he could run an agency chop.
20:38
Like, we just do things because I know at the beginning and the end of the day, we will be the first and last check-ins, and I know that he is never gonna do anything to harm the work or harm the people.
20:51
And, like, and I can say that, like, 10 toes down, that's where there isn't as much deliver- uh, uh, delineation, and I think the team really appreciates it, too, because they know if I, if they bring something to me, I'm gonna say, "Okay, let's get Ben and Melissa in the room.
21:07
Like, let's talk it out. Like, let's prob- let's problem solve." And so something I've just really appreciated from the, the last 30 days is, like,
21:15
I've, uh, given him a lot of trust, and he's, like, proven me right every single day. And the amount of notes I get from teams who are like, "Oh, fuck, like, we're doing this." Mm-hmm.
21:26
And I'm like, "Yeah, we're doing this."
21:28
And we are doing with, this with a CCO who, like, thinks we're awesome, who doesn't think Crispin is anything that needs to be restored or fixed, who thinks we just need to tell our story a little bit differently, who is stoked about everybody here.
21:42
And, like... Anyway, sorry, Ben, I'm just, like, obsessed with how we've handled all this. Yeah. I- And I probably don't, I don't get a chance to say that enough, Ben, Vince- [laughs]... because, you know.
21:51
No, this is, this is perfect. Uh, was this, um... I mean, how, so how does that look? How do you facilitate that?
21:56
Like, I, I hear you that it's, there's a lot of trust there, but, like, was there structure set up to, like, this is when we're gonna be checking in, this is when I'm gonna be getting updates, or is it as the work unfolds and as the days unfold?
22:07
Like, how does that actually work for between you two? Well, there's a- [laughs]... there's a structure in that, you know, there's the standing meetings and discussions- Yeah...
22:16
and that, and then, you know, every organization has its pattern of things. And so, um, I mean, I learned this in really change management training going back to, you know, certifications at the- Yeah...
22:30
Berlin School of Creative Leadership, you know? And, and, um- Yeah... which is a pretty great program. And, you know, it, it's like not to, like, reinvent the stuff that you don't need to.
22:42
So one was, like, use that as kind of the communication mechanism, but then design some things that could be used to have conversations where you can learn a lot in a very short period of time.
22:56
I, I will say openly, I'm an advocate for, like, an IRL mode that has, like, a heavy amount of what's going on and what we do, um, largely because the nature of the work, like, really fits that need, but it's not always the need.
23:13
And I can just... I, I know for sure that we're getting a lot of value out of just stopping and pausing and talking to each other.
23:21
So created on Thursdays, chop up the algorithm, which is we stop and pause, and we print, you know, what we're seeing.
23:28
And that is working where it's becoming desired in the other places we exist, where we're, we're learning to do that. Yeah. So, you know, that's the main thing.
23:38
And I'll lastly just say, you know, yeah, Maggie mentioned it, we're just spending a lot of time with baristas. That's the- [laughs]... that's the main thing. Yes. And so I think there structurally- [laughs]...
23:49
I will do the, like- Boring answer, 'cause I'm also exci- I do love some change management up in this beast. Hmm.
23:57
We have weekly executive leadership team meetings, and in those meetings everyone kind of brings their priorities. We have, um, agency all-hands.
24:06
I will say agency all-hands prior to Ben sometimes were me presenting a deck. Okay.
24:11
This month we were like, "We're gonna do Ben and Maggie together in front of the chop it up board, and that's how we're gonna do all all-hands together moving forward." So- Yeah...
24:21
there are workflows, there are, um, 90-day plans, there are rocks we have to hit that we think about. Um, I will also say though structurally we are breaking some of the structures.
24:33
In the past I feel like, you know, we have a, a chief product officer, Freddy, here who does a lot of the technology and all of that.
24:40
In the past there was just some like kinda like, well, Freddy owns this, and Maggie owns this, and Ben owns this, and we're kinda just all trusting each other. Hmm. And so, and I think the team is really feeling that.
24:51
They're seeing that like, oh, this is a meeting I normally would've had
24:55
that there was some made up hier-hierarchy, and I don't know, Ben and Maggie are just here doing it together, and Freddy's here and we're all talking.
25:01
And I think that is just the natural building, like the natural communication naturally builds trust a- rather than maybe sometimes in the past we've over-processized things. Hmm. Yeah.
25:15
Is and that's k- and again, just to clarify, th- those changes have come from because of how you and Ben relate to each other and the relationship and how you've been working together, and that's why these things are, are shifting?
25:27
Yeah. Like the approach to the- I, I literally, I feel like we had to do zero onboarding. Huh. And again, I'm, I'm protective and adore this team, and so I am, I'm usually involved in maybe too many things you could say.
25:43
When it was time for us to do the all-hands together, we did not practice, we did not prep. We had some slides. I think maybe we got on eight minutes before.
25:55
I was not at all worried about what was going to be said, and 'cause he feels like in the same way I don't worry when Laura talks or when Freddy talks, like Ben feels like such a big part of a team that like I don't think he's gonna go into a meeting and say like, "Well, performance creative is boring."
26:16
Yeah. I trust with, again, my bones that like Ben thinks everything we do here is cool, and not because he's a try-hard, because that's like what Crispin has always done.
26:26
And so yeah, it's been, it's been interesting and even introspective of as we're talking of myself to like be like, "Huh. Yeah, I sure, sure did let him just-- We just- [laughs]...
26:37
we just winged it on that all-hands, and it was awesome." Did you, like Ben, did you ex- is that what you expected coming in?
26:44
Or did you, was there different expectations about how you were gonna be kind of, you know, brought in or onboarded or whatever parts of the process?
26:52
Well, one of the things that's an unusual situation here is I, I've known Maggie a long time. I've known Laura a long time, you know, chief client officer.
27:02
Known Freddy a long time, and I've known quite a few of the people, um, here and there and, and quite often, but we'd never actually day-to-day- Yeah...
27:13
you know, like really been in each other's, you know, work lives to that depth. Yeah. So there we had conversations about, hey, this is gonna be
27:23
different on that front, but let's use the honesty of our friendships just to get into like some real candor and reality about what we're doing. And you know, and I said I, I did say, you know,
27:39
what do people expect from a meeting like this? You know? Hmm. Like what, what have they heard in the past? Like what are they looking for? But pretty quickly the way that we really did it was it was like
27:52
collecting a lot of information all at once and designing what we needed as we were going. And you know, what's interesting is
28:01
I think even in the work that we see and that I now have a deeper knowledge of and we want more people to know about, um, we're really good at building planes while we fly them actually. [chuckles] Yeah.
28:15
And you know, it's like what are we designing for right now? So you know, we- Well, one thing, Ben, I, I think we're really good at it 'cause like,
28:24
and this is something you know about me, is you can more easily fly a plane while you're building it if you know the business of a plane. [chuckles] That's right. Yeah. Yes. It helps. It helps to know how to fly planes
28:38
if you're building one while flying it. If you end up there with no one who's flown, no one's flown the plane, then [laughs] Then we are all like- Real issues Done.
28:49
Like but [laughs] you know, but yeah, that's the thing, Vince.
28:53
It was like we definitely along the way we would say to each other like, "Hey, I think everyone's expecting that we come in with at least some answer to this.
29:03
And like where we don't have answers, let's just be really honest with everybody of like, well, help me explore why you need to know that, and like what are you, what are you really wanting out of this?" And,
29:15
and I, I heard from some people who joined that all-hands who had actually also recently joined Crispin- Yeah...
29:22
from other very different places outside of all that we know, and, uh, they were saying, "Oh wow, this is very different because it's not the canned answer and stuff like that."
29:34
So we had like people crowded around us as we did it, and y- we had the pages printed out of it, and when somebody asked a question in the room with us, we would say, "Well,
29:44
here's the information, you know, if you'd like to see that." Yeah. You know, rather than like take off on some wormhole, you know, kind of a thing. So it's, it's, uh- It's been a pretty special experience.
29:56
I think it's interesting too, 'cause the way that you both are talking about it, it's also culture.
30:01
Like you're building and, and kind of evolving the culture, and it doesn't sound like it was something that was, again, like there wasn't a lot of structure or, or purposeful kinda action around that.
30:11
It's just coming from how you two are operating together, and it's top-down, and it's like, and these things changing.
30:16
It-- 'Cause these are all like cultural touchstones in a, in a way of like how people are starting to communicate and how this information is passed between you two, and yeah, it's, it's interesting.
30:23
Okay, so the other piece, y- you've, you've already talked about how long you've known each other, but again, these past 30 days you've been connecting, relating, working in a different way.
30:33
So I'm curious if there's been anything new for both of you that, that you've learned or experienced or kinda, uh, uh, found out about the other, uh, as far as ways of working in this new kind of relationship.
30:46
I, I keep wanting to ask Maggie that, so she's gonna go first. [chuckles] Oh, boy. Okay. I mean, so this is something that I actually really appreciate, going back to the idea of like love-- running a small economy.
30:58
I feel very passionate about work-life balance. Yes. And that doesn't mean that I believe you work 40 hours, then clock out, and then you're done.
31:09
Like, we've joined an industry that is the most fun desk job in a world, in the world.
31:14
We've joined an industry that some weeks you work 60 hours, and other weeks you did a production and you worked the whole weekend, so then the next week you work 20 hours, right?
31:23
Like, and there-- it's kind of insanity, but- Yeah... it is so much better than like accountant desk job or a lawyer desk job. So there are weeks- Yeah... that are more intense.
31:33
What I have loved about Ben is from the beginning, Ben is like, "I have three people that are extremely important to me, Rafa, Odell, and Alexandra.
31:42
And at 5:30," sometimes 6:30 if we kidnap him, but at 5:30- [chuckles]... I'm going to be thinking about how to get out the door to be with those three.
31:53
I talk a lot about Crispin, like I wanna leave the advertising world better than we found it.
31:57
That doesn't mean just like woo woo, but it means like what Ben is standing for, is we're doing this work so other people can live and work and all the things.
32:07
So I've really, really appreciated that because I've also-- I have my own balances, right? Where like I'm not a person who loves to be on 9:30 p.m. calls. Hmm. Like, I get a migraine.
32:19
But that's maybe when we can connect, so I love that he's like, "Maggie, I can't do 6:30," and, and I'm like, "Well, I can't do 9:30," and then we make the space for it to work the next day. Hmm.
32:30
And I think that has also forced us in the best way to be like not everything is urgent, not everything is an emergency, not everything needs to be an eight o'clock phone call. Um, so that's been the first thing.
32:45
The second thing is I also am a big proponent of IRL culture. Like I j- I learned this business being in IRL and like getting to watch people.
32:56
So I love that Ben is like, "Let's do this," 'cause I feel like I have a partner that I can be like, "Yeah, let's do this." And then let's all leave at 5:30 to go touch grass, go to yoga- Hmm...
33:07
live our lives, unless it's a crazy week and we'll make it work. But like, yeah, Ben, I mean, we haven't talked about that, but like that's something I, I appreciate, um, very, very much.
33:18
And like, man, I'm like also a lover girl, and him and Alexandra's love story is now my favorite, but we'll, we'll-- that'll be the next podcast. [chuckles] And we'll have her on as a guest, and I'll do the interview.
33:28
Deal. That works. That'd be fun. [chuckles] I-- That's, that's very nice. I, um- Well, Ben, I didn't know that was gonna happen when you came from Gale. So there was a part of me- Hmm... that was like- Hmm...
33:40
oh man, is this gonna be-- is Ben gonna come in and be like, "Hey everybody, we're business consultants, and we work 80-hour weeks"? And so it was like we didn't really talk about that before you came in.
33:53
You know what I mean? So it was a wonderful surprise. Yeah. It's, it's nice. It's a, it's kind of a, it's a great tee up to what I was thinking about what I've learned. You know,
34:05
you know, I think it's, uh, we've had a lot of conversation about what works about the past and what doesn't work about the past and the present. Um, we've had conversations really about like
34:18
if something works in the market for us today based on experiences we had, we use it to the benefit of the work that we do. Hmm. Um, but if,
34:29
if that, if it's something about the conversation that's actually holding us back, we don't use it. And I think some of this falls into that. You know, um, I-- What's, what's interesting is
34:43
for me, I, I think I show, everywhere that I show up is that I really all obsess about the businesses that we work on to the point of dreaming about them. Hmm. And, you know, we'll wake up wanting to do that.
34:58
Um, we have a client here, DSW Shoe Warehouse, so took my family to shop at DSW on a Saturday afternoon in Brooklyn and spent two hours with them watching the way that my family really runs around a store and discovers things like it's a playground, you know?
35:18
Yeah. And so that all comes in and informs the work, and it's just a direct correlation of how that works. And we are talking a lot about the need for time for actual unstructured focus to do the work.
35:34
Some of that has come up in the conversations about, um, what we do. And so our relationship with time has just been, you know, a big part of the actual discussion. Um- Hmm...
35:49
and I think that that's a space that, um, because of where I am in my life, you know, um, that is the way where I'm explicitly trying to show up differently. I-
36:02
I also hold the record, I believe, of sleeping the longest in Crispin way, way, way, way, way, way back. You know, on a pitch I stayed for like, you know, four days once, you know? Huh. And
36:15
I, I don't think that that benefited [laughs] that particular work, but I certainly sponged up a lot while I did it. I do think
36:23
a lot of it is about where are the people that we work with in terms of where they are in a combination of their life stage and their career.
36:32
We have some younger people, like closer to the entry part of their career, maybe one or two agencies in, who are maker-oriented, who are saying, "I wanna discover more about agency economics.
36:45
I wanna discover more about package design." So we're making room for the hand raisers of like where you do wanna put that effort into things.
36:54
There is a camaraderie sometimes to like those kinda like get in it, stay in it.
37:01
And so, you know, we're seeing a lot of people put more effort into things based on the time that they really have available because they see the opportunity. Like, everyone who's ever worked, you know, I, I...
37:13
my guesstimate, and Maggie may know, but there's, there's gotta be 2,500, 3,000 alumni- Yeah... of the Crispin brand that are throughout the industry,
37:24
and it's an interesting group of people because it has been my experience that just about everybody in that group will come back and say, "You know, I benefited from some part of it," no matter the chapter they were in.
37:39
Yep. You know? And y- you know, there are billion-dollar brands that have been launched from this philosophy and belief.
37:47
So what of that works, and how do we use it today given all that we have to make the work that we can make? And so, you know, working with Maggie, there's just such an openness to, to how we figure that out. And the...
37:59
I mean, so this, this is perfect. The openness and communication you've both mentioned multiple times already. So, uh, um, you know, within that I'm actually--
38:07
Because this is a working relationship and because of the type of work that you do, uh, and it can be personal, it can be raw, it can be all the things and emotional, uh, for yourself and the clients and everybody involved,
38:17
not everything is smooth. And you two being the roles that you have and the decisions that you have in front of you, how do you handle, how have you been handling disagreement? Like, how does that communication
38:30
work- It's funny... between you two so far? I... You know, it probably exists the most when we're even texting each other.
38:38
Like, where there's something [laughs] going on where, like, I can even tell at some points I'm like, oh, I'm being... I'm, I'm like so on this point.
38:49
I've been texting her for an hour about this one thing, and like, then I go, "Hold on a second. She's on a plane and been stuck on a tarmac for like two hours, so let me have some respect for the context." Yeah.
39:01
And, and that, the, it's funny, today is a very busy and exciting day because we have so much momentum and interesting new clients, and I, I...
39:11
early morning, like mid-morning, I went, "Okay, I'm gonna go order a salad," and, you know, and I'm in the line and I'm like, "Cool, I, I'm taking care of myself by eating this salad today," and, you know, Maggie's calling me on the phone and I'm, like, looking at the salad person, you know, and I'm like, "Okay, I gotta go though.
39:28
Goodbye."
39:29
And so I think it is like, it's an opportunity I think that we looked at, like, really trying to have respect for the context of the other people, and it's a conversation we've looked at from a management lens- Yeah...
39:39
of like, what is everyone really going through when they come to each of these conversations?
39:45
And, um, we've learned a lot about that, and we've learned that, like, a lot of those frictions that actually happen in the day-to-day between people and disagreements, it's, it's like, well, clearly they're distracted.
39:57
It can be that they're overloaded. They have something else going on. The dog needs a root canal.
40:01
Like, you know, something's going on that, you know, we need to, like, respect and understand and, and high-performing teams really understand that about each other. Yeah.
40:10
I mean, I will say the, they're, you know, 30 days in, not a lot of disagreements. I'm sure that at some point there will be. Um, but I do think that if you have people who are in it for the mission
40:27
and who are focused on the right things, like doing the work, moving with intent, all that, then it kind of trumps the ego-driven decisions.
40:39
And to Ben's point, like yes, there are times he will be like on a tear texting me about something, and there's other times where I'll text him and say, "I don't need help or a response to any of the below.
40:51
I'm just gonna text you 4,000 times." [laughs] And then I'm like, "All right, cool. Bye."
40:57
'Cause like sometimes I feel like in our roles what happens is if the CEO says something or if the CCO says, says something, there's like a propensity or a bias toward action. Yep.
41:08
And what I know from being a baby writer and a baby strategist and a baby account person and a COO and now a CEO is sometimes literally I just need a thought partner.
41:20
I literally just need to be like, "Here is 20 crazy things that happened today. WTF. Here's 20 awesome things that happened today," and I just need it to go somewhere where Ben's like, "Cool.
41:33
I'm not gonna do anything with that. You're not gonna do anything with that. All right. Everybody go to bed, and we're great." And like, I feel like that's something that is unique, too, is like I am a human being.
41:46
I am a 42-year-old lady that lives in Texas.
41:49
I also have life things going on in and around this thing that we call Crispin, and sometimes you just need somebody that you can be like, "Whoa, this industry and world is crazy and people are crazy and here's what I just got yelled at for, but I don't need Ben to do anything about it."
42:06
So it's like I think that's the thing that's also really helped is- Maybe it is just the, the partnering together for four years.
42:16
There's been so many times when I've just needed to get something out of my body that Ben knows, well, it's not-- I work at a different agency even though we're partners in here, I don't have to solve this problem, and vice versa.
42:25
Yeah. But I think that's even made some of the... Like, if you're, if you're new to each other, then...
42:32
And it's not that I don't wanna impress Ben, because I do actually want him to think I'm the best CEO, business partner, all the things, in the whole wide world.
42:43
But I also don't get up in the morning to be like, "Man, is-- [sighs] Ben's gonna tell me about craft today, and I don't even know what he's talking about." You know? Yeah.
42:52
Um, so it's been, it's been interesting in a, in the very best way. And then the final thing I will say is, like, we both-- Ben brainstorms about business ideas, culture ideas, office ideas.
43:06
He also then understands the business implications of the things to carry that through. So he's never just coming to me and saying like, slamming into me with all the observations.
43:19
It's like, "Here's why this matters and here's where it will drive business."
43:23
So I take his thoughts and ideas very much at face value, because it's not like, again, you want this, like, high-end chair because it's made by this high-end designer that no one's gonna know who it is from.
43:39
Like, I know Ben wants the $10 corkboard or the thing that we're gonna find at a thrift shop because it, like, helps the work. Yeah. So, like, I trust a lot of that.
43:48
And then on the flip side, when we have strategy and creative brainstorms, Ben knows my background. Like, he knows a lot of the creative work that I've brought to life.
43:57
So I feel like I can, like, bring ideas to the table. I can think about, like, you know, when we did the first-ever Twitter vending machine or...
44:04
And so, like, there's just a lot of, like, I hate this word because I think it's overused. There's, like, just the safe space though. There's, like, so much of that, and it's, like, legitimate- Right...
44:15
safe space to show up how you are in all ways, not like the therapy safe space. Like, I'm gonna give you safe space so you can, like, explode on me. Yeah. 'Cause sometimes neither of us also have the capacity for that.
44:29
That was a really long answer. No, I think it was, uh, it was great, and it actually leads to the-- You [chuckles] this is great.
44:36
The-- So you were talking about, and you've been talk- you both have been talking about this, how much the creative and the business side are blended, uh, and overlap between you two and the roles and just you two individually.
44:45
How is decision... Ta- Can you talk about decision-making? And I know it's only 30 days in and you're still kind of figuring the things out.
44:49
But with that kind of blend and not necessarily very specific lanes, and with everything kind of overlapping as it is, how do you both work through decision-making?
44:59
I will say if it is creative, if it-- [chuckles] and by creative, I mean creative media. So, like, if it's new models and new ways of working, I really want Ben and the team to figure those things out.
45:11
Like, if it's, if it's, if it's profitable and it makes sense and we feel good about it, and we're not gonna, like, m- you know, treat anybody horribly or mess up client work, like, I'm pretty, like, "Yeah, cool."
45:23
Like, "Let's try it," you know? Yeah. Um, if it's about a creative campaign, what I appreciate is that Ben actually will ask my feedback as, like, a human who lives in the world, who experiences the algorithm.
45:35
The team will ask my feedback. But I'm not gonna be, like, as in, like, as into the colors and the font. Like, that is- Mm-hmm... like, squarely in, in Ben and the creative, many of their worlds.
45:47
I will just more like to have a, like, does this, like, business sense thing make sense? And I think for me, Ben trusts me that I'm never gonna do anything that undermines him and the team in delivery.
46:00
Um, and so I do think there's probably more of a delineation than- Yeah... like we are talking about on this call. Sure. But because of the-- Like, I've never been in any one of Ben's creative meetings. Like- Hmm...
46:17
and again, he's only 30 days in. I'm just like, "Have a party. It's your world. Everyone's your duckling." So I don't know, Ben, what do you think? Yeah. 'Cause that's a, that's an interesting question.
46:25
It, it's a great question. It's, it's-- I think some of it comes from I, I think I take a different approach to the way that creative direction works for a lot of different reasons. I'm trying to base it on, like,
46:38
the media environment that we have rather than the tradition that we're trying to hold up. And- Yep...
46:45
um, a lot of that means that we've got a lot of volume work to do, and there's a lot of high-quality expectations, but sometimes not just the craft itself, but in the approach. So you need input. So,
47:01
you know, I think with Maggie's lead, you can even see in ELTs and things, it's, it's a bit more of a workshop. It's like set the issues on the table and talk about them from a management point of view.
47:14
And then in the, the creative meetings that we have, it's like, what points of view should we bring into here? So I even said--
47:23
I pointed out in the h- all hands, it's like some of the things that I have made and that have been the best money-making campaigns for an agency were actually where I was told no to something, but listened to, like, why, and then came back with a reworked version or trying something new, and was respected enough or believed in to be listened to for another round.
47:53
And I try to practice that now. Yeah. That's how-- It's a story that happened way in the past on Egyptian tourism for me, way in the past on the Sprint business in an old place. I've got a lot of those stories.
48:07
So what I see is that has been mirrored back already in a couple of key places.
48:15
There are some great creatives In Houston, Caroline and Jason, and while I was there, Caroline was reviewing rough cuts from O'Keefe's to do this new campaign that we're doing, and we hadn't worked together very long, but she just said, "Hey, can I get a minute with you and Jason?
48:36
Can we just get in a room?" And it's not, it's not a hierarchical kind of conversation. It was more like, "Can you read this feedback? Can you look at this? Can we look at suggestions of how we answer this?" So- Yeah...
48:50
we're even spending a lot of time looking at, like, the way feedback comes over from a client. Like, what in here is the feedback, and at what point are they saying, "Well, this is a suggestion"?
49:05
At what point is the suggestion a mandate, [chuckles] you know? Yeah. And, and all these things. So
49:10
o- one of the stories that I shared when I arrived is that, you know, I spend a lot of time with my kids right now figuring out who gets to name the colors.
49:19
Like, and we take Crayola crayons, and we, you know, mark it on a page, and then I ask them, "What should we name this color?" And they go, "Oh, ghosty gray."
49:29
And I go, "Oh, well, the Crayola Corporation has chosen it to be Timber Wolf." You know? And, and you actually go through, like, an actual creative process. Um- Yeah...
49:40
in, in the, in the media environment that we're in, and in the way that the business needs to be created to move forward, you have to bring perspectives of people to the table to, like, offer them the chance to speak against what you have in front of you.
49:56
If you're trying to hold it against a tradition of a craft that is from 20 years ago, like you're building it for a media environment that does not exist anymore. Yeah.
50:07
So that's what we mean about, like, actually being inventive and, you know, even, you know, the, the wall reviews that we do, we're in- we're inviting clients in to actually have the experience with us to work things out so that we can really hear what's going on for them, because that's when you really get into even what their real business problems are.
50:26
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So last thing then. So, I mean, looking forward, right? So first 30 days on the books, and we all know, like, the milestones, like the 30, the 60, the 90 and, and kinda tracking it that way.
50:37
What does the next couple of months look like for you? Like what, what's on y'all's radar? What's the work between you two look like in the next, like, you know, the 60- and 90-day mark? What's in front of you?
50:47
I mean, I'll say it quickly. It's-- we're, we're like 30 days in, and we haven't even really publicly announced this yet.
50:55
So anyone that ever listens to this, you know, this is set at a time even before a lot of people even know that I'm here. Yeah. So, um,
51:04
what we've done is we've set this up so that we're ready to have a text-level one-to-one conversation with, you know, uh, clients and collaborators from around the industry.
51:15
So we're already seeing that in our tests- Yeah...
51:18
of that, like have conversations with media partners, have conversations with clients, where we really bring them in and show them how we're chopping up the algorithm, turning that into value in newsroom social, how we're being very clever and fun with some cheeky things we're doing in packaging.
51:34
Yeah. And like, you know, doing things like where are the most effective places we should help client businesses show up, and how should we help them show up there?
51:43
And so, um, we're headed into the, like a, a, a, a pretty transparent, uh, and, and [chuckles] inviting and very, uh, uh, very active- Yeah... uh, next, uh, 30 to 60 days, we think. Heh. Yeah.
51:58
I would say I've had the opportunity to, in my time, onboard and off-board so many employees. Yeah. And I will say
52:10
w- a 30/60/90 is also a very traditional way of doing things, and what I liked about this is, again, I didn't interview 30 people. Yeah. I didn't compare 30/60/90s.
52:26
Because Ben and I have some shared language, we are about to go into budgeting season, right? We're about to set our, like, rocks for 2027.
52:35
Um, we are bringing in, uh, different folks on the team from Eileen on finance to Jen, who's our VP of, VP of operations. She, she's been here for, gosh, a year and a half. She used to be at- Yeah... Vice.
52:49
Now she's here. Yeah. Um, but for me, it's we've got a huge week next week with, like, a bunch of news going live, a bunch of clients going live. We've got Adweek coming up- Yeah...
53:02
which is also a bunch of clients coming to town, also a bunch of news going live. But in my mind, like the, there is no 60 and 90. Yeah. This industry changes every 30 days.
53:17
And so what I wanna see, and I'm saying this 'cause we had a whole ELT meeting earlier today together separately, um, half the team is in New York, half the team's in Houston. Yeah.
53:27
What I wanna see is that every 30 days, I mean, Ben, you, you said this, like reinvention is a feature, not a bug. Like, my 30-day plan is, are we doing three things?
53:39
Are we even being a destination, destination agency for challenger brands and people? Are we creating a world that unlocks great work? And are we growing? You know? Like, 'cause if we're growing, work begets work.
53:51
So I think that's the way we're kind of thinking about it differently is like, you know, what are the things that we wanna hit the ground running on in 2027, January 1? We'll just go with January 1.
54:03
Okay, we want chop-ups in every city. What does that look like, and how do we backwards plan- Yeah... from there? We want...
54:08
You know, so I think it's just, again, it's kind of a different approach where we didn't do a 30/60/90. We did a s- let's just go. Yeah. I mean, y'all went right into it, it sounds like.
54:19
I mean, just all these anecdotes on, like, how you've been doing it. It's like day one, you're just doing the work, and you're doing it together- Yes... and you're like... sprinting.
54:25
I mean, right out of the gate it sounds like. And that's, that's quite a, a 30-day cycle to reinvent and to keep kind of checks and balances of what's working, what's not, and then what's new especially. That's,
54:37
that's a fast, that's a tight cycle [laughs]. I mean, we have great... So Ben mentioned, Laura's our chief client officer. She's in New York. Hmm.
54:46
She's there to really make sure we don't go off the rails on any clients. You know? Like- Yeah... she's there to make sure that like we don't break this...
54:54
I, I said this saying, I was like, "We're, what we're gonna do is if it ain't broke, don't fix it." So this pocket over here, magic, wonderful.
55:01
Does not need, does not need Ben and Mag- Maggie's energy, 'cause I think we both also have a lot of energy. Hmm. So Laura's really good, I would say, at being like, "Hey, we're going to Cincinnati in October.
55:12
Ben, I do want you to come in that. Hey, we have this other client over here. It's media forward. Um, the media director is nailing it. Good. It's just gonna kinda like keep going."
55:25
Um, then we also have, I s- I mentioned Jen. But I would say like the 30-day cycle does work when Ben and I are not trying to be all things to all clients to all people. Yeah.
55:38
It is like we've got three, I mentioned we've got 2.5 wins.
55:43
But what I want is on those 2.5 wins, how are we reinventing the model on those from what we learned on doing Newsroom Social on American Eagle or doing live content on New Balance?
55:57
Like okay, we got those, and they're running out of New York. They're going really, really well. So on these new ones, how do we replicate that rather than doing a, you know, tradition- more traditional pricing model?
56:10
So I think that's why the 30-day kinda cycle looks is, again, Laura with the like checks and balances of like, "Don't go crazy on this thing that's working," then that like singular focus on work and growth. Mm-hmm.
56:26
It just kind of does allow not everything to be changed all at once. Yeah. Does that make sense, Ben? No, it- I say- It, it totally makes sense. I mean, there's a lot of storytelling going on here. Hmm.
56:37
A lot of stories that I think it's happening so fast we haven't even publicly told all of the stories.
56:45
[laughs] And so when you actually look at the flow, it's just not, it's not even realistic to like involve yourself in absolutely everything. So like, um, it's a very,
56:58
it's a very special time to, to learn, um, about the work that we do. Yeah.
57:04
And not to u- use the cliche, but I mean, just to put a point on it, it sounds like, were you saying, I mean, genuinely every project you're trying to move the bar on something?
57:11
Like, you're doing something new and different each and every project?
57:14
'Cause you mentioned like the two and a half that's coming up, the new ones, and you said every individual one of those you're trying to elevate and push it forward. Is that what you... Is, is that right?
57:23
I would say for the new business we are- Yeah... trying to make some tweaks on... Not even tweaks. Like, I would say make some significant changes based on what we've learned.
57:34
I would say for the existing clients, like we do a lot of scale creator and influencer work. That runs like a machine. Yeah. We haven't even scratched the surface on the opportunities over there.
57:45
I'm sure there's things that we could uncover, but Deanella, she's out of the Houston office. She has like a huge team. That stuff, like we're like, "Okay, this is magic. It's profitable." Yeah. "It works really well."
57:56
So I would say the where we're really in reinvention mode is the places where we're leaning into Newsroom Social and creative media. Hmm.
58:08
That is where like I think our brains are the best suited to think about like what's to the future.
58:14
And again, like Ben said, we have such an awesome Caroline, Jason, Deanella, Jen, like there's just a really passionate group of lieutenants- Yeah... who can run with the things that don't need fixing right now.
58:29
Because I do believe that once we reinvent Newsroom Social, something is gonna change in the media space, and then we're gonna say, "Oh man, like these three big media clients, Ben, Freddy, get your brains in here.
58:42
Chop it up on this side. Newsroom Social's perfect for the next six months. Don't worry about that." Yeah. So I think that's kind of like how things will rotate a little bit.
58:51
[upbeat music] This sounds exciting.
59:12
This is some really fun stuff. Like it... And it's really cool just to kinda see you two, how you're, how you're already like thinking through it together. Any, um, I mean this- Well, I have a final brainstorm. Or yeah.
59:23
Okay, Vince. So this morning when Ben was getting his salad, this, this can either go in the recording or not.
59:31
But I called- [laughs] I called Ben 'cause we were talking about the announcement, and I was like, "You remember that movie Almost Famous and they like went along with the band for six, six months or whatever?" Yeah.
59:43
We are... Crispin is 60 years old. Yeah. And there's so much wonderful about it. There's so much changing in the industry. There's so much we wanna leave behind. There's so much we wanna bring forward.
59:54
And so we were just kinda talking about like how do we bring you along for our own Almost Famous journey, but there's not gonna be like drugs and bands. Yeah. It's just gonna be n- you know, New York and Houston. Yeah.
1:00:11
But like, I feel like we want somebody who's like...
1:00:14
Like I, we wanna do it a little bit differently, and somebody who's like curious about this industry and design and like all of that would be like, I don't know, fun like January drop documentary. I don't even know.
1:00:26
But like I just... Ben, that brainstorm we had earlier, just like I, I loved that even though you were ordering a salad that you heard me- [laughs]...
1:00:33
and then said three really smart things, and then I was off in my brain for three hours. I mean, I, to me, that's something that's incredibly exciting that isn't done yet. And, um, I think y'all are very...
1:00:45
I think you're in a very interesting position, you two specifically as a partnership, but then also as the company and the narrative that you have both kinda said and then getting to know, you know, talking to Ben this past month.
1:00:54
I think it's a fantastic opportunity, and I think there's some really fun and exciting things that we could do with it, honestly. Almost Famous- Okay... is like the perfect example too [laughs] of that.
1:01:03
Uh, look, I just think even if it's like you working out of one of the offices for a week every...
1:01:07
Like, I don't know, just like you being a part of like even when we're having pricing discussions and like seeing that debate and like I feel like we trust you enough, think it could be really interesting. 100%.
1:01:18
I, I, I'm, I'm fully in.
1:01:19
And again, like all of this, and like, I mean, I've said this to Ben 100 times now, but like there's safety in the edit for all of this, and to me that's the only way that this works is because I want the most real, but obviously respecting and knowing all the things that we have to consider.
1:01:32
But I want the most real experience and kind of, you know, story out of it as possible. So yeah, this sounds, this sounds wonderful.
Pop Rock Disco
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